WMBTWG Day 15 (Please comment to this post to enter today’s drawing)

Calling all fiction writers: Fiction Week has arrived!

Welcome to day fifteen of the Writer Mama Back-to-School Giveaway. Today’s giveaways are two special edition hardcover copies of Make a Scene: Crafting a Powerful Story One Scene at a Time by Jordan Rosenfeld. We will have two winners! So please comment to this post to win!

Jordan has been newly initiated into the writer mama “club” (I could get in trouble for this phrasing…but what the heck!). Congratulations, Jordan!

About the book:
You’ve felt the pulse-pounding drama of a good story, turning pages at a furious clip, caught up in a book so real, you feel as though it is happening to you. What makes that story, book or essay come to life? Strong, powerful scenes. Make a Scene is a guide on how to write a strong narrative—story or novel—one scene at a time.

With precise instruction, examples from bestsellers, unique exercises, and scene-writing tips from successful authors, this book shows readers how to craft each scene so that it renders a vivid emotional punch, establishes and maintains tension, and propels the reader forward.

Author Bio:
Jordan E. Rosenfeld is author of the writing boook Make a Scene, a contributing editor to Writer’s Digest magazine, and a freelance writer and manuscript editor. Her articles, essays and reviews have been published in numerous publications including Alternet.org, The St. Petersburg Times, The San Francisco Chronicle, and The Writer, and her book reviews are regularly featured on NPR-affiliate KQED Radio’s “The California Report.” She’s co-founder of “Write Free!” a method to help people attract a creative life, which has spawned the book, with Rebecca Lawton, Write Free: Attracting the Creative Life (BeijaFlor Books) and a bi-monthly newsletter. Learn more at http://jordansmuse.blogspot.com, http://www.jordanrosenfeld.net, and http://www.writefree.us.

***

Today’s question:

Let’s talk about fiction! Did you study fiction? Do your write fiction for pleasure? Have you had your fiction published? What’s the scoop about you and ficiton? Inquiring minds want to know.

If this is your first post in the giveaway, please read “Da Rules.”

You may post your comments until midnight PST on September 15th.

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40 Responses to “WMBTWG Day 15 (Please comment to this post to enter today’s drawing)”


  1. 1 joy September 15, 2008 at 5:33 am

    I write fiction for kids. My dream has always been to write picture books, but the first picture book I began turned out to be way too long for a picture book. Suddenly the idea of writing chapter books and novels wasn’t as intimidating as I thought, so I’m working on all levels of children’s fiction. I’m not published YET, but I will be!

  2. 2 Karrie September 15, 2008 at 6:21 am

    I love fiction. I love writing it and reading it and just looking at it in the bookstore. None of this is to say that I don’t love non-ficiton just as much. My first memories of the school library were of reading through a biography series. So I indulge myself in writing both and trust that the one will inform the other. I also take classes in both fiction and non. And that’s my non-fictional description of my love of fiction:)

  3. 3 rowena September 15, 2008 at 7:08 am

    I love fiction. I have been reading it madly since I was seven and discovered the Little House books. I started writing my own when I was 15 and didn’t have a library card or money for books.

    I got a bachelors degree in English with a concentration in Creative Writing and studied the writing of poetry, fiction and non fiction, and when I graduated, I continued my studies on my own, starting or joining writing groups, reading many books on writing, writing short stories and novels.

    I experienced a crisis of faith, if you will, around age 27, and decided to be a teacher instead of a writer, but teaching only served to renew my belief in the value of stories.

    I actually think that I learned the most about fiction, both the reading and the writing of, when I was teaching it. And the only time I took a break from writing is when I was pregnant and raising infants. Even that served to teach me new things about it all.

  4. 4 anniegirl1138 September 15, 2008 at 7:11 am

    I did study fiction through the University of Iowa’s Writer’s Workshop as an undergrad and than took grad course extension for several summers while I was teaching.

    I write it because I like to and have always been one to make up stories going back to when I was very small. I dreamed of writing books even back then.

    One of the things I would love to do is get my MFA and teach at the university level. There is a program out of Vancouver that exactly has an online program – very rare find. There next deadline for apps is next September and one of this years goals is to get a portfolio to send.

    I haven’t any published fiction yet though I have one short story under consideration at a sci-fi magazine who asked for a rewrite. I do have a short novel done in need of a revision. I guess you could say it is in the polishing stages.

  5. 5 Mary Jo C. September 15, 2008 at 7:28 am

    I’ve studied and written fiction since childhood!

    I took courses through community colleges: Morton College & College of DuPage. I studied fiction at Columbia College Chicago and through the Inst. of Children’s Literature.

    Though fiction is where my heart lies, non-fiction seems to be easier to get into print. Though, I’m not giving up!

    As Rowena mentioned, teaching it changes things. My young writers groups inspire my motivation to refocus on my fiction writing and this book would definitely help the cause!

  6. 6 Betsy September 15, 2008 at 8:29 am

    Reading has always been an important part of my life. As a young child trips to the library were always a treat and the treasures found among the shelves exciting.
    The ability fiction authors have to transport the reader to another place and time inspires me.

    Writing fiction is a passion I was born with. My stories fill up holes in my heart that are a part of the world in which we live. Writing has helped with challenges such as death of loved ones, relocation to a strange town and recently empty nest syndrome. My fiction usually revolves around events in my family that changed me.

    Never having been published, I do often share my stories with people close to me and enjoy their reactions.

  7. 7 marnini September 15, 2008 at 8:34 am

    Currently, I am about eleven chapters into my middle-grade fiction novel. I am enrolled in an advanced writing program with the Institute of Children’s Literature. The course will help me finish and polish my manuscript so it is ready for submission.

    I love reading and writing fiction. I am always the person to say What If…? You can create all kinds of fiction with those two small words. I have to admit I read more fiction than non-fiction as far as books. I like non-fiction short stories, articles and personal essays.

    Imagination is one of our best gifts. Fiction allows you to take that gift and run with it.

  8. 8 Cara September 15, 2008 at 9:04 am

    I’ve been riveted by fiction ever since my dad read me my first book as a child. Was it Madeleine, The Story of Babar or something else? I don’t remember. What I do remember is dad’s deep voice reverberating in his chest as I snuggled close to him, and the feeling of joy I got as I immersed myself fully into the story.

    What I wouldn’t give to be able to write fiction! So I’m taking it in stages here. Right now, I’m cutting my teeth on writing personal essays, slice of life stories, and more lately, creative nonfiction. I’ve set my sights on the short story first, reasoning that the shorter word count will encourage a tighter narrative and leave me more room to concentrate on the elements of plot and characterization.

    My bookshelves are overflowing with used books I’ve purchased from our library. I like to think of it as my research, to study a wide variety of styles. In the process, I’ve become far more discriminating, and if a book doesn’t hook me within the first two chapters, it doesn’t get read. There are too many books and too little time to waste reading something mediocre!

  9. 9 elizaj September 15, 2008 at 9:09 am

    I’ve always wanted to be a writer and as a writer I always assumed I’d be a fiction writer.

    I enjoy reading memoirs very much – but that doesn’t attract me as a writer at all.

    I relish a good children’s books (eg: Classics and Newbery Award winners) that I can share together with my kids and I thrill at a really well written adult novel that I can ‘live in’ for days.

    But I haven’t actually *written* much fiction. It doesn’t come naturally to me.
    I need to learn how to write fiction and to trust myself to let it flow. I look forward to the challenge.

    I love poetry – it’s my soul food and I will continue to write poetry, but fiction is my dream.

  10. 10 Chris Clark September 15, 2008 at 9:18 am

    I WANT to write fiction but ever since my creative writing classes in college I have not done so well. I read fiction ocassionaly but find myself gravitating more and more towards nonfiction even in my reading.

    I want to have that rich, imaginary world in my head though. The characters just pleading to get out and on paper. Sometimes it seems like I’ve “grown out” of fiction since I loved to read it and write it when I was younger. I use a prompt book and try and practice though. But ultimately, I always feel like it falls a little flat.

  11. 11 alirambles September 15, 2008 at 9:30 am

    I have a completed draft of a novel I’ve been working on seriously for just over 2 years. Before that I really hadn’t written a lot apart from blogging and memoir-ish stuff. I read a ton of books like the one you’re giving away to educate myself about how to write something I could be proud of, and did a lot of rewriting. I took a class and joined a critique group and read a LOT of good fiction to figure out what works for me as a reader. Now I’m working on the structure and on cutting it back a little (a mere 10,000 words…), with the help of a class I’m taking. And I’m still reading (and reviewing on my blog) tons of fiction as well as those writing craft books.

  12. 12 Debra Ross September 15, 2008 at 9:34 am

    As a dedicated non-fiction writer since I was a teenager, I pegged myself as someone who “couldn’t” write fiction. Silly me! The issue wasn’t that I couldn’t write fiction, but that I simply hadn’t had enough experience to convey life adequately in meaningful fiction. Then, I hit 35 and was suddenly struck with the urge to write fiction and the conviction that I could do it.

    There are some novels, both kids and adults, that I read over and over–either because I enjoy them and want to write like the authors, or because I enjoy them but I *don’t* want to write like the authors. Thinking hard about the difference between what I want to write and what I don’t want to write has helped me craft my own style, and I’m now writting middle-grade fiction.

  13. 13 karen September 15, 2008 at 9:40 am

    Nope, nope, nope and nope. I love (underlined and ten exclamation points after love) reading fiction, but for now, writing non-fiction suits me. I am just starting to write a little fiction, very little, and I am finding it fun and perhaps something I’d like to do more. I have the stories spinning around in my head and am starting to get them on paper. It’s funny, my life is so grounded in all sorts of realities and non-fiction writing fits right in. Breaking that protective cover of creativeness that’s swimming around the edges seems more difficult than it ougt to be.

  14. 14 Laura September 15, 2008 at 9:42 am

    Ah, Fiction! Writing fiction is my goal, my dream, my heart. While I enjoy writing non-fiction, especially personal essays, it is fiction that holds my imagination & my hopes. I’ve been trying to learn to write fiction by reading books on the subject and attempting to write a short story. I’ve also been trying to learn by example, by learning to slow down when I read, so that I can notice just how an author describes a character, how she sets up a situation, and the flow of dialogue. It’s a slow process to learn this way, but I have to keep trying. I’ll keep learning and continue to write fiction, as well as non-fiction.

  15. 15 Celestial Goldfish September 15, 2008 at 9:50 am

    Yes, yes, and yes. I love fiction. My imagination is a cozy, albeit odd, place to be. I’ve written many “books” since I was about four-year-old, and I have two manuscripts I consider publishable. One will probably never be published because it’s odd and has no neat genre, but I approached my next novel will more planning and care (and a pitch line), and it shows. I had positive feedback from agents at a conference, but now I’ve been waiting five months for a reply. Sigh. However, as soon as I get feedback from a beta reader, I’m going to start sending out a flurry of queries. My next novel is already heavily planned and outlined, and the full writing begins in November.

    Otherwise, I’ve been honing my fiction skills through flash fiction. I’ve had one story published online, and need to submit several more.

  16. 16 andrea September 15, 2008 at 10:14 am

    I did not study fiction – or writing of any type (pun intended!) I studied architecture, but have found that my overactive imagination is more suited to less restrictive art forms such as drawing, painting, photography and writing. I am not published, yet, but I am working on several children’s picture books, a novel and 3 blogs. I have words tumbling out of my head that need homes and keeping the words flowing into the right places is my current exciting, crazy adventure.

  17. 17 Meryl K. Evans September 15, 2008 at 10:19 am

    I’m all about nonfiction. I need more practice before I could dive into fiction otherwise what I write will sound cliched. If I do any fiction work — it would be children’s books. I have had a love of children’s book long before I had children of my own (we won’t count my childhood for obvious reasons). My favorite college course was on children’s literature.

    I just have not found a creative twist or something different. This is always in the back of my head when I read to my kids.

  18. 18 Cathy September 15, 2008 at 11:14 am

    I do write fiction; that’s where I started when I came back to writing. Little by little, I dipped into the non-fiction pool, so I just don’t have the time to write as much fiction as I’d like. Thank goodness I like writing flash and short stories 🙂 I’ve had some of those published. And recently, I’ve won a few children’s writing contests. I’m hoping that will help when I try to sell my middle grade novel!

  19. 19 Laural September 15, 2008 at 11:44 am

    I wrote a novel when I got my kids to nap at the same time when they were one and three. Years later I learned non-fiction was a quicker way to get published and began writing articles. The book is still there, and sometimes I get excited about going back to it, but meanwhile I’m honing my writing with articles and have a non-fiction book idea in the works. As a kid I thought being a writer meant fiction, now my definition has totally changed, and the fiction might be something I circuitously get back to later.

  20. 20 Aurora September 15, 2008 at 11:55 am

    Although i’ve written mostly non-fiction (for work and freelance), i am working on a couple of short fictional stories to perhaps submit in a contest. i once took a travel writing course and the instructor felt i might have a knack for it. I’m interested in breaking into the historical romance/suspense romance category. i’ve never taken a fiction writing course, this book would be great in helping me to develop my stories. I think i really need to take Christine’s Platform development class to really determine where my writing strenghs lie…

  21. 21 Katrina September 15, 2008 at 11:55 am

    My Dad taught me to read using the newspaper and I’ve read everything I could get my hands on ever since. Both of my parents gleefully indulged my appetite for books of all kinds and in all genres, so I suppose it was only a matter of time before I took pen in hand to turn out my own story. I have a manuscript I work on when I’m not turning out non-fiction writing assignments. I read many authors speak about hearing the voices of characters in their head, and thought perhaps they were a bit daft, but it would appear I, too, am daft, as it was my protaganist who “spoke” to me the line that launched the story. I find the more I work on the story the more clearly I hear the voice. When I let it sit because of other projects, I “fall out of the story.” If my character were a real person, I would say she pouts and gives me the cold shoulder because I’ve ignored her. Ha!

  22. 22 gb September 15, 2008 at 11:59 am

    I have been reading and writing fiction since I was a child, and later went on to earn my degree in English and theatre. As a teen, I had all sorts of lofty opinions about “real literature,” but my college education and even motherhood changed all of that. I found that story was essential, not to be tacked onto “deep” characters. I also learned that there is no shame in escapist reading. I’d perish without my msyteries (plus, as a mom, I need a plot that moves quickly)!

    My other passion is YA literature. When my kids are a little older, I look forward to tackling my novel. In the meantime, I read YA novels and collect story ideas in a notebook.

  23. 23 Stephanie Craig September 15, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    I love to study fiction. I have a work in progress, so I have to keep up with current writing/publishing trends. I use this excuse so that I don’t have to give up my long time hobby of reading fiction.

    But since I have been studying more than reading lately, the dream of being published has become more of a reality. I feel that if some of the books I have read can be published, than so can mine. I am trying hard not to write one of the books that make people think the same thought though.

  24. 24 Erika September 15, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    Writing children’s books is my dream. I finally got serious about a year ago and started putting the stories that have been rattling around in my head on paper. It is great fun and I am working on finishing my first middle grade novel. Everything else thus far has been much shorter – picture books, easy readers, etc.

    I joined the Society of Children’s Bookwriters and Illustrators (SCBWI) and have been really impressed with how helpful the group is. I learned about a great local class, formed a critique group, and went to a fabulous conference where all 4 Newberry award winners from last year spoke. There is so much to learn before you even try to get published and I’m just enjoying the ride for now.

    Back to finishing the novel…

  25. 25 Julie P September 15, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    I haven’t officially studied fiction since high school, in fact I never even thought of it as a perk towards writing fiction. Although having taught fiction writing, albeit to children, I do have an idea about creating plot, character development and depth of story.

    I would love to write novels, I’ve even started about 5 fiction novels. I can easily define my characters and determine the beginning, middle and end of each story. I’m fabulous at summarizing my own stories — I should just skip the book and write the summary for the inside flap. (Afterall, I’m primarily a PR writer.)

    I have written a few children’s fiction books, primarily for Preschool through 3rd grade. Unfortunately, after a few notes of “we love your story but its not a good fit right now” I became discouraged. (I know… I need to fight through that!)

  26. 26 Amie H September 15, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    My favorite non fiction reads like fiction. It’s that cinematic you-are-there sensory quality that good fiction evokes. I want to capture that same intensity in my non fiction writing and so reading and studying fiction has been really beneficial. As far as writing fiction goes, so far I haven’t done much in awhile. But I think it would be a good challenge and help me access a part of my brain that since childhood has been sleeping.

  27. 27 Elizabeth September 15, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    I studied fiction and now I write fiction when I have a free moment.
    I’ve had a short story published and am shopping my novel around, trying to find an agent.
    I wish I had more time to devote to fiction, but spending lots of time writing nonfiction. But I have a few ideas for another novel and a young adult novel.
    Elizabeth

  28. 28 Cheryl September 15, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Fiction is my favorite thing to read. It feeds my soul, it nurtures me. And it’s my favorite thing to write. I mostly read and write children’s and YA (Young Adult) fiction, though I enjoy well-written adult fiction as well.

    I study how to write fiction all the time. I read books and articles on how to write fiction. I go to conferences and workshops, when I can afford to. I read novels, analyzing what works, what doesn’t, and why (sometimes I wish I could stop reading that way–at least temporarily, by choice). And I regularly attend a writer’s critique group, which also helps me learn what works and what doesn’t.

    I have two YA short stories published, two non-fiction stories published, and two manuscripts which are sitting with two different editors. My lifelong dream has been to publish novels–to give kids and teens some of that magic that I got from books. That I still get. When books are good, they are so powerful, incredibly absorbing, and fulfilling. I am so glad for books!

  29. 29 Mar Junge, c3PR September 15, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    For four years I’ve studied under Floyd Salas, author of Buffalo Nickel, What Now My Love, State of Emergency, and other novels. Fiction writing keeps me sane, but at the same time, brings to the surface issues that are difficult to face. I wish I could devote more time to my novel. But alas, it doesn’t pay the bills. Here’s my favorite ‘Floydism’ at http://www.floydsalas.com — “Go to where the pain is…Don’t fear to dive into the depth of your own neurosis, for down deep in the subconscious lies a gold mine of poetic experience, and through your struggle to make manifest your own anxiety in the objective terms of the imagination, to communicate it to another person, any reader, you will come to an understanding of it, realize how your personal suffering has universal value, and discover how to mold its torturous shapes into beautiful forms which capture the life force, the transcendent spirit, enrich the human experience and help create a better world for yourself as well as for others.”

  30. 30 Rosemary Lombard September 15, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    My first writers’ workshop, at Foothill College in the Bay Area, the best vacation of my life, gave me a chance to think how techniques and sensibilities of fiction could enliven my stuck-to-the-facts-ma’am narrative nonfiction. There were, after all, few nods there to the nonfiction writers among us.

    Today I’m reading about narrative tension in Rabiner and Fortunato’s smart Thinking like Your Editor, about “serious nonfiction” for the nonspecialist reader. Of course, much of our cultural history is based on story; they suggest that story can also drive character-driven or question-driven nonfiction. It can, for instance, lay hints of what’s to come—undisclosed events, logical playing out of ideas, or how it will “wend its way . . . to the expected conclusion,” as in the known outcome of Titanic. Pacing can quicken, like fiction, toward the denouement. Writing to the human impact brings abstract ideas down to earth where they matter to real readers.

    So no, I rarely write fiction per se. But yes, my nonfiction book is story; yes, it uses dialogue, as carefully recorded in research journals; and yes, it adopts ever more techniques from the novelists’ arsenal to bring, entertain, keep, and convince my readers.

  31. 31 Sarah K. September 15, 2008 at 5:32 pm

    One of the great loves in my life is a good story. I can remember my parents (especially my mom…who reads with a passion) taking me to our town library and picking out books with me. It was so exciting because with each book that we checked out I knew there was another adventure we would embark upon. My mom taught me how to read when I was four years old and afterward there was hardly ever a day that went by without my reading something. While I love reading fiction, I have never considered myself a master storyteller. Although, a short fictional story that I wrote in college happens to be among my writing that I’m most proud of. Also, I have for the past year been working on a screenplay, which is somewhat fictional.

  32. 32 A Musing Mom September 15, 2008 at 6:48 pm

    As a teenager I wrote only short stories. So in high school and college I studied fiction. But after a while I realized that my own stories were boring me and I switched over to non-fiction.

    For the past two or three years I have been dabbling at fiction again. Pieces of novels sit in my files and I vow to one day participate in NaNoWriMo just to get one complete draft down.

    Now I’m back to studying the art of fiction, this time in earnest. I don’t want to go back to writing stuff that bores me.

  33. 33 KristyG September 15, 2008 at 7:43 pm

    I have a novel that I am working on, but I haven’t set any serious goals for it yet. I thought for a while that I didn’t have enough of a creative touch in me. I came up with a story recently that really gets the creative juices flowing. It is a mystery, so of course I fret if it is going to have enough twists and turns to even satisfy myself. My hurdle so far is the location. While I really want it to be set in the South, I haven’t been there, and I don’t feel that it would be fair to the reader without having first-hand knowledge.

  34. 34 theexile September 15, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    My yearning to write came in the form of writing fiction. I wrote dozens of unpublished short stories, a fat stack of sketches teaching myself techniques, and two unpublished novels. I finished my third so-far unpublished novel manuscript a year ago, but I’ve been afraid to submit it. Five years ago I published a short story online at pindeldyboz and another there a year later. Those two stories are my only two pieces of published fiction.

    Recently, as far as writing goes, I’ve been writing nonfiction, and want to get back into journalism.

    As far as reading goes, I’ve been immersed for two years in a reading project inspired by Jane Smiley’s Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Novel. My goal is to read 100 novels, and as often as I can, report about my impressions of them on my blog. The novel is my favorite prose form: novels easily — usually — absorb me in their worlds. But, as I’ve been writing nonfiction, I’ve been reading more nonfiction, essays, journalism, etc.

  35. 35 Renee September 15, 2008 at 7:59 pm

    Fiction is my first love. It holds a special place in my heart. I’ve devoured fictional novels from a tender age. My idea of “me time” is to soak in the tub, uninterrupted, with bubble bath and a good novel. Since becoming a mom, I don’t get to read as much fiction as I’d like so I always lug two to three novels to the beach on our vacations and everyone knows I will have my nose in a book the whole time!

    I decided to take the “safe” route and study journalism in college, and it has helped me develop a nice career. But I have two or three solid ideas for novels in the back of my mind, so hopefully I can pick up some new tools this week to help me get started! I purchased “Writer’s Dreamkit” for my Mac awhile back and actually outlined one whole novel in it, until a hard drive crashed lost it. I’ve been too discouraged to try to plug everything in again yet:(

    BTW, I just received my travel writing package from Ninth Moon today. I would recommend her to anyone looking for writing-related gifts. Everything was packaged so beautifully that even my 5-year-old daughter was intrigued!

  36. 36 Chefdruck September 15, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    I’m an avid fiction reader and I’ve been enjoying reading like a writer lately, reveling in the sacrilege of underlining really powerful sentences. Making great books truly mine.

    I’m really just dabbling in fiction writing though. My blogging and memoir writing takes up too much of my time to get serious with my fiction writing. When I do make the time to write fiction, I am exhilerated by it. The strangest characters come out of my pen. I seem to be a sex-maniac subconsciously, at least that’s what my writing group tells me. I haven’t written anything longer than a short short story yet, but I’m considering tackling nanowrimo in November to see what comes out!

  37. 37 Jenni September 15, 2008 at 8:52 pm

    I feel a little off whenever I’m not reading a work of fiction, which has happened more often than I like since having kids. I find that stories act as an anchor for my thoughts throughout the day. I mull them over, relive the best and worst parts of a character’s life, repeat beloved phrases to myself.

    My daughter and I make up stories on the spot all the time: as I’m preparing dinner, sitting on the front porch and especially in the car. It helps the time go by but, more than that, allows our imaginations to open up.

    I have not studied fiction (unless you count “20th Century French Women Novelists” for one semester in college) and assumed I could never write it until one of the stories my daughter and I made up got stuck in my head. I began writing it down and now I’m looking forward to seeing where it will go from here…short story? short novel? Who knows? I’m looking forward to working on it.

  38. 38 Christine September 15, 2008 at 10:04 pm

    I have written fiction and buried it in a folder on my computer. I show it to nobody. I would love to feel good enough about my fiction writing to attempt to get it published. For some reason the fear of rejection is much higher with fiction writing for me. Perhaps since I studied literature in college and spent my time writing essays, not fiction, I feel more comfortable writing nonfiction now.


  1. 1 WMBTSG Day Fifiteen Drawing: And the winners are… « The Writer Mama Riffs Trackback on September 16, 2008 at 8:49 pm
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